big_distraction: Discussion Of the Day

Big Distraction Icons (

big_distraction) wrote,
@ 2005-04-17 14:49:00

Current mood:

contemplative

Discussion Of the Day
Lately I, and you all, have seen many many MANY icons that pretty much look the same. It didn't bother me too much, until I started making a Veronica Mars icon and suddenly realized I was practically copying one of _jems_'s latest icons. It was all there. The cropping was almost identical, the colors were similar. And then I thought to myself, SHIT, I'm becoming one of THEM.
My point is, everyone used to be original once. Now you see two icons by two different people and you can't even tell them apart.

So, I've decided, out of curiosity, and of course the need to know where to draw the line, to ask you all to tell me your opinions: what do you think about the latest icon-making trend called COPYING? Do you think it really is copying, or is it natural to use others' techniques? Which techniques are overused? Which were not meant to be discovered and make your eyes bleed? Everything about icon-making, I wanna see in the comments.

p.s - I have not given up on my almost-identical-to-_jems_'s icon. I like it too much and still working on it. Hopefully, she will forgive me this one time. :)

(35 comments) - (Post a new comment)

	blacklupo 2005-04-17 05:08 am UTC (link)
	It shouldn't look all the same, but if you use the same technique that's what comes out... As long as there are just a few of these "copied" icons... Even though I haven't seen any copied icons (O.o) there are surely 2/ 3 types: the copier and wannbes, the doing-it-by-accident-s... And you're surely not first or second, huh? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-17 05:15 am UTC (link)
	i'm certainly not 1 and 2 (i really do hate when the same icons start appearing everywhere), but i'm afraid i've let 3 take over a few times. :-/ they're not exactly copied. but sometimes i see one and go, this looks just like the style of this-and-this, and then it turns out it's someone else's icon. and it's just...argh, so annoying sometimes. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	blacklupo 2005-04-17 05:24 am UTC (link)
	Yeah but... I mean what should you do? Stop making icons just because they look like others? I dunno how much these icons look like each other... I mean what about been ispired by others? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-17 05:33 am UTC (link)
	there's being inspired, and plain doing what other people do. like with the light effects. other things can be done with light textures except setting them on screen mode or whatever. i swear, it's like the most overused effect on the face of the earth. the whole world and its sister used it by now. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

blacklupo
2005-04-17 05:45 am UTC (link)

mh.
when I see a nice icon and try to make one, have an effect like that... in the end i always have other things. i mean I do use texture like this and still i don't have the icons others have...
i'm inspired and still do my own thing... other people don't do so. but will anything stop 'em from doing this? i doubt so.
there are quiete a few techniques, but somewhen it'll look the same, that's how life goes...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-17 05:56 am UTC (link)
	yeah, i guess nothing will change. i just wondered what people thought about the whole thing :) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	blacklupo 2005-04-17 07:15 am UTC (link)
	would you have an example? i mean to icons that look like the same? so i can totally understand the whole thing? :) so, after all, i think you can't really aviod it. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 04:57 am UTC (link)
	heh...i'd really rather not give examples. i'm trying to keep the drama level at a minimum! ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

_levity
2005-04-17 05:58 am UTC (link)

I think there's copying and then there's borrowing. Copying definitely seems to be the trend and while many people can argue that it's okay since "everybody's doing it", in the end they're just reworking the same old material until someone comes up with some new technique which people will exploit.

Then there's borrowing, which is when people borrow certain aspects that they like about an icon (like the texture brush, the bordering style, the coloring, etc.) and use it moderately. They don't intend (or knowingly intend) to rip off an icon or style, and to me that's okay. If we all had to create our own distinct style, forsaking all the old tricks in the book, there'd be people using LJ with nothing but 100x100 pixels of white space.

However, it's all about moderation. There's a fine line between copying and borrowing that needs to be towed, because I swear, those light effects are starting to become blinding. ;p

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 05:08 am UTC (link)
	heehee. i sometimes like them. but most of the time they're just old. :) i agree with everything you said. it's alll about moderation. (Reply to this) (Parent)

fierytigress
2005-04-17 06:03 am UTC (link)

Okay. Firstly, the icon you speak of wouldn't happen to be the kissing one? Cuz it's alright if you copy because no one will notice. There are like a billion of them and

_jems_ herself made about 17 of it. lol.

Anyway, for me? I really can't stand copying. It's so fucking obvious and annoying. I do it but I don't like it. I think copying mutates when you try it yourself. There's no way you could get it to be like that other person you are trying to copy. Unless, you are like God or something. lol.

When I see something pretty and I want to try it out myself, it never works. So I try it anyway and try to put a little bit of my style into it (if I have one). You know? All I'm saying is that copying in the icon world is hard to avoid. There's a little bit of it everywhere in all our icons. We just have to evolve from it as time pasts.

Although, I have to say, you avoid the copying technique perfectly. lol.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 05:05 am UTC (link)
	hehe, not a kissing icon. i wouldn't mind posting that because er, MILLIONS of them around these days. ;) I do it but I don't like it. same here, hehe. i mean, i hope i don't do it too much but i definitely use some techniques by other icon-makers to help me. and thanks for saying this! i swear, this is bothering me more than it should. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

fierytigress
2005-04-20 04:20 pm UTC (link)

Oh good! Yeah, more than millions if you count every single one of them. lol.

Yeah, and that shouldn't necessarily mean it's copying. You are just using it to see for yourself. There's no harm in that, right? It's just a trend that no one can really stop no matter how much they want to. Good thing is, that we all can change from it sooner or later when we adapt their style because we're all individual about our icon-making way. Everyone has their own style, there's just a bit of this and that that are sometimes the same. Just don't get me started on those who copy EXACTLY!! That's bloody annoying and wrong.

Aww. It's okay! ;) I do hope this doesn't bother you much later cuz it really does happen to all of us and there are ways to avoid it (I think). Just keep on making icons!!! :D

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-21 04:41 pm UTC (link)
	hehe, don't worry, i'm too obsessed to stop. le sigh ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

eevee_gurl
2005-04-17 06:30 am UTC (link)

I haven't made icons in over a month, simply because I know when I'm done, I'll hate it because it'll look too much like someone elses. And even though I don't mean to, it will, simply because I use things I like and this will be interpreted as copying.

Yes, it is natural. But it's easy to make assumptions. And even so, you can't tell if someone either a) Copied on purpose and lies, saying that they didn't know b)Didn't do it on purpose but now everyone else thinks they copied. Almost everything has been overused so that using any given font on any given icon can make it look like someone else's icon. Same with gradients and brushes.

And personally, I don't understand eye-bleeding icons. I mean. Don't people themselves realize it hurts their eyes? Sure. Right after I'm done with an icon, it's somewhat cool. But a week later, even I see the factors that make it ridiculously icky.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

big_distraction
2005-04-18 05:00 am UTC (link)

lol i look at my old icons and am disgusted! although they'll always have a special place in my heart because after all, they were my first. *hearts* ;)
hmm i don't think people realize how bad some icons are. i usually accept them because they're probably the makings of a beginner, and it takes ages to learn. and you know, they're really proud of their work and i respect them for that.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

anythingbutgrey
2005-04-17 07:31 am UTC (link)

Well, I often start out trying to acheive an effect, and either I reach it (which is rare, and I tend to hate it) or I make a mistake on the way and end up with something completely different. It's only natural to want to try out something a fabulous icon maker such as

_jems_ does. But I think using the same cropping and the same picture is a little extreme. Unless, say, it's something from VM last week, where EVERYONE is using the same pictures.

Now, I saw an icon two days ago which I SWEAR was an EXACT replica of one of the icon tutorials by

dtissagirl (she even used those same butterfly brushes that tissa used). And if *I* can realize that in a split second? So can she. And that's not right.

I'm not sure if that was helpful. :-/

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	blacklupo 2005-04-17 07:54 am UTC (link)
	dito :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

dtissagirl
2005-04-17 04:06 pm UTC (link)

I guess my threatening to curse them with leprosy didn't stick? Oh well. *g*

You know, I think it all comes down to *intent*. I made an icon the day before yesterday that looks A LOT like something Jems you've made. It wasn't intentional, but I had been staring at her icons forever earlier that day and it happened like that. I'm self-conscious enough that I'm gonna ask her if she's okay with me posting it, even.

Still, this is a very complicated thing to define -- how do you know you stepped over the line between being inspired and full out copying? I'm currently more concerned with blatant stealing -- people actually using parts of other people's artwork in their icons. But I love that discussions keep popping up about the copying too. I strongly believe that the more we talk about it, the less prone to copycats we as a community are.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

big_distraction
2005-04-18 03:55 am UTC (link)

i've somehow never come upon an icon which was an exact replica of another icon...i guess it's just me? hehe...

i know what you mean about Jem's icons, too. she just keeps getting better and better. and it's so pretty you just can't help trying it out for yourself. i'm still not ok with that icon i made yesterday because it's so her style, but...oh, we'll see. i really like it but they're just so much alike.

and you're right about the discussions...people will start paying attention to what they're doing. and you know, i'm not saying they should stop what they're doing altogether if it's too much alike, but maybe try new things. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 04:53 am UTC (link)
	yes, vm-ers did go a little crazy. lol in my case, i have a feeling i would've cropped it the same way and it really wasn't intentional. i suddenly stopped and said to myself, wait a minute, this looks familiar. and then i discovered how similar they were. was is the Carisma icon which had MILLIONS of layers? it's the only one i remember with butterflies in it. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	anythingbutgrey 2005-04-18 12:34 pm UTC (link)
	Yep! That was the one. :) Except Irina was in it, not Cordy (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 02:39 pm UTC (link)
	ah, i see. interesting! (Reply to this) (Parent)

bornwithafever
2005-04-17 07:41 am UTC (link)

I also like original icons, but I think "copying" is not such a bad thing. That's why people make and use tutorials, they like to discover new things. I think even though people tend to copy various icon styles everyone adds a little of his own style and that's why no icon is exactly the same.

But what I don't like is when people copy icons 1:1, meaning if they find a tutorial for an Miranda Otto icon (just an example) and use exactly the same pictures and crop them exactly the same. They should at least use different pictures. Hmmm ... actually I don't know many people who do that 1:1 copying so yay for that.

Anyways, interessting question, made me think a lot.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 04:42 am UTC (link)
	really? haha, i thought it was already mentioned so many times, i'm even kinda late with this subject. ;) who does that? lol it's ridiculous to copy an icon 1:1. odd! (Reply to this) (Parent)

ekm
2005-04-17 08:19 am UTC (link)

Styles seem to come and go in cycles. Today it's lighting effects, yesterday is was overuse of that little checker brush. I think I would be annoyed and proud simultaneously if I were the one who started any given craze, but one can rest assured in the fact that something new will come along.

It's almost as if the entire community is learning together, in a way. If you look back to just a year ago, pixel font icons that nearly everyone disdains now were quite the rage. When i think about it that way, i'm glad that people "borrow"/"copy" the 'elite' icconers. It's nice to watch people's skills expand, and one can only hope that theey can take those new skills and apply thtem to a personal style. It doesn't always happen, but i'm a bit of an optimist. :)

*showcases uber-repetitive-light-effects-icon-of-d00m!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 04:38 am UTC (link)
	that is true, about the old icons. i sometimes look at old icons of the "elite" and go aw man, look how far we've ALL gotten. so that's nice. :) and i like the icon you used! i think the effect fits here, too. (Reply to this) (Parent)

devilwrites
2005-04-17 08:44 am UTC (link)

There's a few different ways of looking at it:

1) Some people literally copy. They can't think of anything else, and make their icons look like the most current trend so they get get comments. It's intentional, and not cool.

2) Some people don't mean to copy, but are easily influenced by styles. I put myself in this category. I work per cap, and my styles tend to come out of how I do the icon. Sometimes, I end up using techniques I've seen (like certain brushes, etc) because I really liked how they looked and I want to see how I can pull it off. But people like me, we never INTENTIONALLY copy a person's style (unless on the rare occassion we're trying to teach ourselves something, and in those cases, we might. It's all flattery).

3) Some people are good friends with other icon makers, and they share a collective brain. They have similiar ways of looking at things, and their styles can tend to be similiar. It's not copying, it just happens. With a certain group of my friends, it happens with me too. :) This is the category I think you fall under....and don't feel bad. Being part of a brain-trust isn't copying, it's just cool.

I want to see this almost-identical icon!!! You'll have to show us!

(Reply to this) (Thread)

big_distraction
2005-04-18 04:33 am UTC (link)

haha, i thought of myself more of a #2
i usually start out with trying to achieve a certain effect i see in icon communities and such, but it usually turns out different. lucky for me, different in a way i like... :)

and i'll have to ask Jems about this, because really, now i feel bad because i started this discussion. i mean, not for starting it, but it would be ridiculous that after all i said about copying, i'd go and post an icon that is really similar to another icon.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

stevie_jane
2005-04-17 08:55 am UTC (link)

There are trends, like in fashion and advertising styles, because when something looks good or works well in any medium others will be influenced by it. Unless it's a purposeful exact match of the original I don't really have a problem with it. Yes, when every icon made looks exactly the same it feels overdone, but I still see a variety of styles happening. You can only get so much "different" looking milage out of a 100x100 space, and no matter how hard you try it's entirely likely there's another icon out there with a smiliar quality to it.

The OMG CPOYING ANYTHING IS EVIL idea is not something I can get entirely behind because in art other talented artists, for centuries, had a go at using the styles, composition and use of colour that others before them used, because they were inspired by them. Learning by sculpting an exact a replica as possible of a well known statue etc. was common, that's the way people learn how to emulate something they appreciate, and then they can put their own twist on it.

Those who aren't so much trying to learn but are simply perpetually uninspired and so restrict themselves to only what has gone before are only limiting themselves, not others from coming up with something enough different to start a new trend.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

big_distraction
2005-04-18 04:25 am UTC (link)

i understand about the trend and fashions, and it's totally alright to be inspired by someone else's work. but sometimes people take it too far. it's not that it's a crime (in MOST cases ;)), but it's boring. it makes me go, ok, you looked at some icons of a really great icon-maker, made your own icons in the same style...and i notice the quality of the icon is usually worse than the original, too. so what next? what's the point, you know?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

muruch
2005-04-17 01:26 pm UTC (link)

There's always been the copying problem in the Buffy fandom (particularly when grungy borders & exclusion layers first became popular), I think it's just more noticable now Buffy isn't the main icon making fandom anymore and there are a lot more icon communities.

As an icon maker & friend of many other icon makers, it does annoy me to so many copied icons. Especially in the elite/good icon communities, because that seems unappreciative of the original makers. And I know how time and imagination consuming it is when you're trying to come up with something original for an icon, as opposed to following a tutorial or using those nifty Photoshop actions to mass process the same style.

I do think that most of it is unintentional though. When everyone is using the same screencaps (usually VM or Lost), even if they don't use an identical style it can look the same. And some people just like certain styles, whether they came up with it or not, so I don't think they should have to keep them hidden simply because they are similiar to someone else's. Though I think it would be nice if they'd say "inspired by lj user..." or something to give some recognition to the originator of the idea.

When using icons, though, I'm a conflicted on the subject. On one hand it's boring to see the same icons over and over and I do miss the days when I'd check my icon filter and be wowed by creativity. But then there are also many times when I'll see a particular scene that I really want an icon of and like the style everyone is using, but not like the text one icon maker puts on it. Then it's nice to have more options and find the same kind of icon with better text.

But anyway, after all those icon maker wars in the Buffy fandom pretty much made the icon community shut down for a year there, it's just nice to see good icons at all. :}

(Reply to this) (Thread)

big_distraction
2005-04-18 04:11 am UTC (link)

heh, that's pretty scary. i hope we don't get to the point of closing communities over this.

i really don't mind people using the same picture, and even the same cropping more or less (unless the cropping was really really original and then it's just weird seeing two icons with the same cropping). it's more annoying with the borders and the effects that are, like, really noticable in an icon.

and using the same style is ok here and there, but put something different in the icon! i like it when i see an icon and say, ah, that's definitely an icon by so-and-so. but lately it's getting really hard to tell them apart just by looking at the icons.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

neonbliss
2005-04-17 03:43 pm UTC (link)

I can honestly say I've never knowingly copied someone's icons. I've sometimes seen a particular style I like, and try to make it look similar, but I always add my own 'flare', if you will. There are some things I almost always do in all my icons, like: I'll always use a gradient of some sort and I'll almost always use text/lyrics. Other things such as borders, squiggles, light textures, etc. I use within reason, and I try not to do it just for the sake of doing it. You know?

So, I figure some new icon makers tend to just see icons that get lots of appreciation and think "hey, I wanna be popular like that too" and then just duplicate that style over and over again. While that's pretty much wrong, no one seems to care anymore, and it's kinda troubling and annoying. There are boundaries, however, as with anything, and borrowing certain aspects are fine, but copying layer for layer is just as bad as plagiarizing word for word from a story/essay. Art and writing shouldn't be different in that aspect.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	big_distraction 2005-04-18 04:01 am UTC (link)
	While that's pretty much wrong, no one seems to care anymore, and it's kinda troubling and annoying. argh, i know what you mean! maybe as an icon-maker i find it more bothering than i should, but people really don't pay attention to what they're looking at sometimes. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(35 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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